I can’t believe I’m even thinking what I’m about to write, but I am and I think my reasoning is sound. The old paradigm is shifting, one way or the other… and I’m thinking we could help it shift where we want it to go rather than sit on the sidelines just watching it happen…
Of course as nevertrump there could be no possible way we’d ever call a vote for trump an act of morality… right? Steve Deace, of the Steve Deace Show said recently that though he personally will not vote for trump, that it’s understandable some will hold their noses and vote for him in an attempt to avoid hillary. That said, and after the events that unfolded since Friday, I believe the case can now be made that a vote for trump would be completely and morally acceptable — if done to mete out a particular kind of punishment to trump-cult, to the r.n.c./g.o.p. as well as to rinse prieeebus, paul ryan and every media surrogate that have helped dt get this far.
I really want them choking, at this point, on their own vomit in the attempt to expel the evil (trump) they’ve played host to and tried to force down everyone else’s throat. I want them to get what they’ve asked for without being handed the excuse that trump didn’t win in November because we refused to vote for him, thus making hillary our fault. I don’t want them to be able to say that everything bad befalling this country and all of us, is hillary clinton’s fault OR ours. No, no and Hell NO!
I sincerely believe that if our motivation is like that of a good parent, to let the child have what it craves, to in fact give the child what it craves in such large measure it sickens him, but so that he might better understand the evil he’s unleashed, that it would be a moral act. So give them those cancer-sticks, buy ’em every pack in town and make ’em smoke every last one or ’til they puke at least once!
We all know hillary will bring America fully to its’ end, there is no doubt that’s her plan, but allowing HER to do it will only give our brothers and sisters what they’re already expecting from her, as well as the convenient excuse by which they will throw up their hands and absolve themselves. NO!
It’s time trump-cult fully experiences the consequence of their idolatry, let them have trump, give them trump, in fact insist that they get their trump in such measure that they get sick… sicker than they have ever been. Let them choke on their trump as they turn against him and attempt to vomit him out. Think of it like the amendments Ted Cruz proposed attempting to derail the gang of 8 plan for amnesty. He was giving them what they wanted — his vote — in order to achieve a greater good. Vote4trump to serve a greater good.
Honestly, you all need to get a grip. First, my post was editorial license, I am never going to vote for Donald Trump. I am however so xxxxxxx sick of the trolls that hammer Cruz supporters for not supporting trump that part of me wants to give him to them to be sure they have the opportunity to choke on it! That would be the only palatable reason to vote for trump in my estimation and the only one i personally would accept if someone I knew were to cross the line and vote for him. Hillary will win this election unless something extraordinary happens of that I have no doubt… and evil being evil, she is still the most evil of the two which will affect the rest of us in a devastating way. As further support for what I wrote is that Hillary is an ideologue, a devoted leftist. Trump isn’t, he’s just a self-interested libtard who likes gaming the system. But they are both leftist in their policy plans… trump is to the left because that’s his life-long affiliation and Hillary is left because it is in the marrow of her bones. We lose either way, so as I see it, it ain’t no sin to let “Republicans for Trump” have their poison. There is at least the satisfaction that come next election they can’t blame America’s failing political system on Hillary. (the foregoing comment has been edited by the author to remove indecent rant language, my apologies, I’m getting old and cranky-er)
My dear friend, I don’t know what’s been said here that makes you think anyone’s losing their grip. Kathy agreed with you, Curtis is opting not to vote for Trump but said nothing negative about your post and all I’m saying is that I support your decision either way but I personally do not want to make my decision about Trump predicated on appeasing those who are gearing up to wrongly blame us if Trump loses. Just like you I’m sick of the trolls who want to point fingers at Cruz supporters. The situation reminds me somewhat of the times when Republicans are wrongly accused of shutting down the government in those rare instances where they try and do the right fiscal thing. We all understand that there is nothing to fault Republicans for when they try to cut the excesses in the federal budget created by Democrats; and yet the minute Democrats start blaming Republicans for a shut-down “crisis,” Republicans crumble, and this only reinforces the perception of their culpability in the minds of the public. It’s a win-win for Democrats. The same reasoning applies to the Trump situation, IMO. If we give even the APPEARANCE of acting as though our votes are being influenced to avoid blame for a Trump loss, that will be taken as our assumption of the responsibility for Trump, and those truly responsible for the rise of Trump will be off the hook in much the same way that Democrats get off the hook for the messes they create. Even if I ultimately decide I have no choice but to vote for Trump, never for one minute do I want to play into the hands of Trump worshippers by seeming to assume the responsibility for Trump’s win or loss. I hope that in explaining my comments it does not seem as though I’m losing my grip on anything. We just have a different way of looking at the same problem.
Not meaning to offend you or anyone else CW, my position is this — I will not vote for a non-Judaeo-Christian candidate; I will not vote for an immoral candidate of any stripe, and I will not be told the consequences of refusing to vote in compromise of what I “religiously believe” makes any of the alleged or actual consequences my fault. It’s that simple for me. Trump is a fraud, my first post on this was at my old defunct blog and on facebook last August. I refuse to play the game any longer because the scenario that it’s all about SCOTUS is a red herring and a demonstrably false choice. BUT that said, I am not opposed to strategic voting. I do believe that Trump has ZERO chance of winning, and that that lets all the trolls the Trumpbots, off the hook and they are then able to blame it all on the those who refused to vote for him. We are going to suffer mightily no matter who wins this. I will never vote for Trump, but I really would love it if he was voted in over my conscientious objection of principle (knowing that’s not what HE wants) so that as the nation falls into the abyss, the proper party’s are to blame so they can’t claim it was the fault of Cruz supporters. Sorry it took me so long to reply, but I am connected to so many pages that I can’t keep up. I am your friend CW, sorry if I have made it seem otherwise.
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No worries, AfterShock. I thought maybe I’d said something that upset you. I sometimes have a nasty habit of irritating people.
I completely understand your position and I agree: we are going to suffer either way.
I’m afraid I’m not feeling the logic here, AfterShock. Ted Cruz gave the Gang of Eight what they wanted on amnesty because he was betting it would kill the deal. He was right. I don’t see anything similar happening here.
I don’t necessarily see anything morally wrong with voting for Trump given that the alternative is Hillary. If a married woman has a choice of being raped or being killed, choosing rape is not an immoral choice for her. It’s a strategic decision relating to survival. Whether it’s a SMART choice is an entirely different matter. She might be raped AND THEN killed, in which case she suffers a double loss. That’s how I see the Trump decision at this point. It’s a strategic decision with SCOTUS nominees on one side of the scale and the future of the Republican Party on the other. Which one are we going to sacrifice? That’s for each conservative to decide and I can understand either decision.
As far as worrying that the Trumpets will be able to say “…that everything bad befalling this country and all of us, is hillary clinton’s fault OR ours…,” I personally don’t give a rat’s ass what they say. We were more than willing to nominate a conservative for POTUS but they insisted on Trump. Instead of defending that choice and trying to persuade us on the merits, we are constantly bullied, berated and threatened with the end of the world if we don’t now join in their madness. Well they can scream as loud and as long as they want and as far as I am concerned whatever happens as a consequence of their irrational devotion to Trump rests squarely on them.
CW that was my point, Cruz voted for it in an ultimate attempt to kill it. I reread the post and I don’t see where the confusion is? My point is, there can be a similar motivation in voting for trump for those struggling with such a vote morally… it will remove any complaint that conservatives are responsible for Hillary if he still loses, or if he wins and governs exactly the way Hillary or Bernie would have, they will have definitive proof that nevertrump was right all along, that Trump is a con-man and that they have been conned. There will be nowhere for them to run and hide, no excuses… Trump is their guy, and they will not only have him as POTUS they will have to live with him for 4 years or until he is impeached, whichever comes first.
I’m sure I’m being too nitpicky with the Cruz analogy (sorry for that) but to your broader point, while I understand your strategy I disagree with the reasoning for it and here’s why: the finger-pointing that you’re worried about in the event Hillary wins assumes there was some mutual bargain among Republicans to support ANY candidate that a plurality might want, because that would be the only just cause for complaint. Well I never made such a bargain and I assume you didn’t either. If there was an implied bargain it was made on our assumption that the Republican nominee would actually be a conservative committed to advancing – not changing – the Republican Party platform. IMO Donald Trump doesn’t meet that standard, so I do not consider myself obligated to support him and if that means that he fails to get enough support to defeat Hillary I will not allow myself to be a scapegoat for those who didn’t uphold their end of the bargain. To vote for Trump to avoid the complaints from those who helped him take over the Republican Party would only reinforce this dangerous and false idea that we have an obligation to support anyone as the nominee no matter who they are or what they stand for. At the risk of being annoyingly repetitive, I may or may not decide to vote for Trump ultimately, but it most definitely will not be to avoid becoming a scapegoat for the Trumpets.
A good piece, AS, and I understand what it took for you to come around to this way of thinking, and to actually put it into words. The idea of Hillary being our president is so repulsive that I would vote for just about anybody to avoid that. Second to that hate, is the disgust I have for an election system that’s put us in a position where we have to vote for a reckless blowhard billionaire in order to avoid that, and even then there are no guarantees.
I think we’ve all said it – this is the absolute worst election cycle I’ve seen in all my years, and it’s also the most critical. Plus there’s a really good chance the trump cult will blame us anyway if he loses.
Go ahead, aftershock, if it suits you!
Until yesterday, I was ruminating whether I might possibly just vote Party Line, without vocally supporting Trump.
But after yesterday, neither Trump, nor the national Party, of which I am a Life Member, is deserving of my vote.
I will vote for individual candidates, line by line, but not for either Hillary or Trump.
Think strategically curtmilr, I said NOTHING about supporting trump… there’s virtually no difference between trump or hillary save this — trump is not an ideologue, he’s a megalomaniac which means he’s so self interested he can be induced to sell out his own mother. But the real issue is ultimately to make trump supporters responsible for this mess, not hillary and not us. We can and should call their bluff, by saying okay fine, have it your way and live with the result. That leaves 2020, both the race and the party in play for a real conservative coup. It’s Ali’s rope-a-dope strategy until then. Just let them exhaust themselves on an actual trump presidency, nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, no one left to blame.